The Indian-Turk connection
Are American Indians Turkish?For many years, there were occasional stories related to the commonalities between Turks and Native Americans in the Turkish media. For example language similarities were always portrayed as the strongest link between the two groups' association. It is widely known in Turkey that French linguist Dumesnil found more than 300 Turkish words in native Indian languages: Türe and Töre (Tradition), Yanunda and Yanında (Near), Atış and Ateş (Fire) to name a few.
For some groups, the commonalities of Native Indian languages and Turkish are normal because some regard all human languages as descendants of one Central Asian primal language. One group supporting the Sun Language Theory are the ultranationalists. The theory further proposes that the only language remaining more or less the same as this primal language is Turkish. For others, the connection between Native Americans and Turks is far-fetched and they argue that these kinds of stories are stretching the imagination. Plus a curious piece of (mis)information:Ç?nar also mentioned the main purpose of the conference was to strengthen relations between Turkish Americans and Native Americans. "In the U.S. Senate there are 15 Native American senators. Therefore I see this conference also as an important element in strengthening the Turkish lobby and increasing its supporters in the U.S. Senate." Comment: Fifteen Indians in the Senate? Not according to the Wikipedia entry on Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.). "As of 2007, Cole—a member of the Chickasaw Nation—is the only registered Native American in Congress."
The language connection might be impressive if the Turkish words matched the words in a single Native language. But since there are hundreds of Native languages, it probably isn't hard to find a match between a Turkish word and some Native word.
For a similar claim, see Kokopelli a Hindu God?
For some groups, the commonalities of Native Indian languages and Turkish are normal because some regard all human languages as descendants of one Central Asian primal language. One group supporting the Sun Language Theory are the ultranationalists. The theory further proposes that the only language remaining more or less the same as this primal language is Turkish. For others, the connection between Native Americans and Turks is far-fetched and they argue that these kinds of stories are stretching the imagination.
The language connection might be impressive if the Turkish words matched the words in a single Native language. But since there are hundreds of Native languages, it probably isn't hard to find a match between a Turkish word and some Native word.
For a similar claim, see Kokopelli a Hindu God?
posted by Rob at 7:35 PM
13 Comments:
Writerfella here --
IF Oklahoma Senator Tom Cole is Native American, then writerfella MUST be a Martian! There is no way that Dr. Tom Cole is anything else than Caucasian, no matter what race he decides to claim. If Tom Cole stood beside Kiowan chieftain Kicking Bird, the first thing that would happen is that KickingBird would scalp 'the white man!' Ipso facto! Um, er, uh, Rob, isn't your own hair somewhat THIN?
All Best
Russ Bates
'writerfella'
Writerfella here --
POSTSCRIPTUM -- For decades, the Kiowans were regarded by American scientists as a separate tribal existence from the rest of the Native tribes. Why? Because their language and symboli matched no other Native tribe. Their language, therefore, was given its own separate existence category as 'Tanoan.' Then, in the 1980s, correlations were found between Kiowan and Mayan language that meant that the two tribes possessed the same origins, plus the fact that the Kiowans worshipped pyramids constructed of mud and kept their family histories written in like symbols on animal hides. Kiowans, scientists now believe, are Mayans. Both tribes ate turkeys, but does such a fact make them TURKISH? Just asking...
All Best
Ruiss Bates
'writerfella'
from Native American Chiefs - Kicking Bird:
"Tene-angop'te, "The Kicking Bird," or "Eagle Striking," also known as Watohkonk, "Black Eagle," was a Kiowa chief widely known for his wisdom as a leader and his courage and strength as a warrior. Little is known of his early life; his grandfather was a Crow captive who had been adopted into the tribe. As a leader Kicking Bird advocated peace with the Whites.
But no... I guess Russ wants to portray him as a mindless scalping savage: "the first thing that would happen is that KickingBird would scalp 'the white man!" Not a wise leader who seeks peace.
Writerfella here --
No, no, no! That was a joke aimed at Rob! Kickingbird in fact was a proof that the Crow people and the Kiowans were the same peoples! There is a legend among Kiowans that says that once two brothers were the leaders of the tribe. They were hunting together and both spotted a deer in the forest. They both mounted arrows and shot at the deer. When they found the slain deer, both of them claimed that it was their arrow that killed the deer. While they were dressing the deer, both claimed the udder, as it was a doe and the udder was a delicacy. The argument over the prize then led them to divide the tribe into twain, and the brothers took their supporters in differing directions. Thus, by legend, the Crow are the Northern Kiowans and this long has been recognized by both tribes. writerfella came to know in 1960 that the PlentyHoops clan of the Crow and the Paddlety clan of the Kiowans are the same family. Consequently, the PlentyHoops clan and the Paddlety clan have had an annual 'family reunion' during the American Indian Exposition held each year in Anadarko, OK. One never can argue with who is the rest of your family...
All Best
\Russ Bates
'writerfella'
Fortunately, we know that belonging to a federally recognized tribe is a political matter, not a racial one. That's why many tribes enroll people with less than 1/2 "Indian blood." Much less, in some cases.
Biologically speaking, these people are more white or black than Indian. But they count as Indians because some tribal government has accepted them as citizens. Just as the US does, the tribe has exercised its sovereign right to include whoever it wants as members.
You do know all this, don't you, Russ?
Cole hasn't "claimed" to be Chickasaw. The tribe has claimed him by enrolling him. Nor has Cole claimed to be an Indian racially, as far as I know. Rather, he's claimed to be an Indian culturally and politically. "Politically" means he's met the membership requirements, whatever they are, of a federally recognized tribe.
Get it now? Or do I have to explain federal Indian law another 10 or 20 times?
Actually, the Kiowa language is closely related to the Tanoan languages of New Mexico's Pueblos. It's only uncertainly related to the Uto-Aztecan language group, which may include some Maya languages.
You've implied that the Kiowa descended from the Maya and inherited their cultural qualities. I hope your Kiowa-Maya connection is based on more than languages, because that link seems weak if not nonexistent.
It never made sense that the Maya hopscotched over Mexico and the American Southwest until they reached the Great Plains without leaving a trace of their language or culture on the way. Now your whole story is open to question--as usual.
A Google search for "kiowa maya" suggests that you're the only one talking about a link between the two peoples. If anyone else has posted on the subject, I must've missed it.
The facts on Kiowa-Tanoan languages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiowa-Tanoan_languages
Kiowa-Tanoan (also Tanoan-Kiowa) is a family of languages spoken in New Mexico, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas.
Most of the languages—Tiwa, Tewa, and Towa—are spoken in the Pueblos of New Mexico and called collectively Tanoan, while Kiowa is spoken in mostly southwestern Oklahoma.
The Kiowa-Tanoan family is sometimes hypothesized to be related to the Uto-Aztecan family. This is still being investigated.
Don't worry, I haven't been scalped. The picture was taken the day after one of my ultra-short haircuts. I'll let my hair grow for the next 3-4 months.
P.S. Personally, I wouldn't make a joke about an Indian scalping someone unless it was with a close friend who understood my sense of humor. But no biggie.
Writerfella here --
Hey, that's okay. That your hair is thinning and actually disappearing is your own problem, not writerfella's. Plus, that you have not kept up with current levels of anthropological studies is not writerfella's fault, either. Per exemplum, you still believe that Anasazi skeletons reveal a people who only were 42 inches tall. That there are no Hopi people who are 42 inches tall somehow does not preclude you from agreeing to the Hopi claim that THEY are modern descendants of the Anasazi. Proof therefore escapes your arguments very well indeed...
All Best
Russ Bates
'writerfella'
I guess you have nothing else to say about Cole's membership in the Chickasaw tribe or the Kiowa's mythical relation to the Maya. You couldn't defend yourself if an ant attacked you.
Unlike me, you've yet to prove you've read a single anthropological study. You know I've read such studies because I cite and quote them.
As for what I said about the "Anasazi," you're basically lying again. Readers can judge the matter for themselves here.
turks and native american is like.turks first come in amerca from tibet.native americans have turk dna %97 and orginally turk language have so much native american words.our culture is like native americans,our symbol is wolf like natice americans.if you look a turk never distinguist with native american our physics of same and so much similaritiy.dont worry native american people we dont kill you like english cowboys.we want to say all world is true realty.history will chance.we love nativeamericans they are our.
hi..mayas fathers is tolmeks .Tolmeks fathers is olmeks. old turks is came to america and teach all things 'ziggurats ,pyramits etc..
to olmeks and marriage whit them
about 40,000 years ago.
we(turks) have a pyramids and they are older than egypts
but nobody dont talk about that
all world hiding like that things..Why???
http://ufubo.blogcu.com/iste-cin-deki-dev-turk-piramidi_1085159.html
http://www.bibleufo.com/ancconstpyr5.htm
http://www.haberbu.com/haber_detay.php?id=15574
That's Toltecs and Olmecs, not "tolmeks" and "olmeks."
Nobody did anything worth mentioning 40,000 years ago except maybe draw the first cave painting. In the unlikely event that people crossed from Anatolia to the Americas then, they would've been about 36,500 years too early to meet and marry the Olmecs.
The only specific information I found about a Turkish pyramid was here:
http://burningsky.net/articles/pyramidturkey.html
The first Egyptian pyramid is roughly 2,700 years older than this pyramid. Even the first Olmec pyramid is several hundred years older.
you right turker..
wolf is holy in our country (same like indians) our cultures is like indians.. we love native americans they are our..
and you CAN NOT deny this..ok????
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